Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA

Liste des GroupesRevenir à c theory 
Sujet : Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA
De : polcott333 (at) *nospam* gmail.com (olcott)
Groupes : sci.logic sci.math sci.math.symbolic comp.theory comp.ai.philosophy
Date : 27. Apr 2026, 15:53:32
Autres entêtes
Organisation : A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID : <10snt9d$2f46l$1@dont-email.me>
References : 1 2 3 4
User-Agent : Mozilla Thunderbird
On 4/27/2026 4:30 AM, Mikko wrote:
On 26/04/2026 23:54, olcott wrote:
On 4/26/2026 3:01 PM, Scott Hoge wrote:
On 2026-04-20, olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:
Proof-theoretic semantics is inherently inferential, as
it is inferential activity which manifests itself in proofs.
...inferences and the rules of inference establish the
meaning of expressions.
Schroeder-Heister, Peter, 2024 "Proof-Theoretic Semantics"
https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/proof-theoretic-semantics/
#InfeIntuAntiReal
>
Provable(PA, φ) := ∃Γ ⊂ PA(Γ ⊣ φ)
There exists a finite set Γ of inference steps of PA such that φ
is back-chained to PA can ALWAYS be resolved in directly in SOL.
Has_Meaning_PTS(PA, φ) := Provable(PA, φ)
>
Twenty years ago (under my sixth-grade-adopted nickname "Mike"),
I posted in sci.math that Gödel's G was meaningless due to the
infinite regression toward infinity on the basis of which its
meaning was supposedly obtained.
>
The correct interpretation was, I argued, not "This sentence is
unprovable," but rather:
>
The following is unprovable (1):
  The following is unprovable (2):
   The following is unprovable (3):
    ...
The directed graph of the evaluation sequence of G
has a cycle preventing its evaluation from ever
terminating.
If you have no idea what directed graphs are you will
never get this. If you always knew what directed graphs
of evaluation sequences that contain cycles are then
you rebuttal has always been pure dishonesty.

>
As regards semantics, I could call statement (1) the "unencoded
sentence," sentence (2) the "first encoded sentence," the concept
under which all sentences (1)-(∞) belong the "formally abstracted
sentence," and the concept under which all sentences (2)-(∞)
belong the "encoding-abstracted sentence."
>
Then, I could argue that:
>
1. The /unencoded sentence/ is /true and meaningful/. It's a
statement about numbers.
>
2. The /formally abstracted/ and /encoding-abstracted/ sentences
are both /meaningless/.
>
Does this seem in agreement with your view? If so, how would you
describe my concepts in your own terms?
>
--Scott Hoge
>
F ⊢ GF ↔ ¬ProvF(⌜GF⌝)
https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/goedel-incompleteness/#FirIncTheCom
>
Olcott's Minimal Type Theory
G ↔ ¬Prov_PA(⌜G⌝)
Directed Graph of evaluation sequence
00 ↔               01 02
01 G
02 ¬               03
03 Prov_PA         04
04 Gödel_Number_of 01  // cycle
>
% This sentence cannot be proven in F
?- G = not(provable(F, G)).
G = not(provable(F, G)).
?- unify_with_occurs_check(G, not(provable(F, G))).
false.
>
The first incompleteness theorem sentence
has a cycle in the directed graph of its
evaluation sequence making it semantically
incoherent.
>
This kind of semantically incoherence is
foundational in proof theoretic semantics.
 Olcott's usual reaction is to say something unrelated to any asked
question instead of answering. Perhaps he hopes to hide his ignorance
and incompetens. But it does not work.
 
In other words you did nor bother to page attention to what
Scott Hoge said.
--
Copyright 2026 Olcott
My 28 year goal has been to make
"true on the basis of meaning expressed in language"
reliably computable for the entire body of knowledge.
The complete structure of this system is now defined.
This required establishing a new foundation

Date Sujet#  Auteur
20 Apr 26 * Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA286olcott
21 Apr 26 +* Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA239Mikko
21 Apr 26 i`* Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA238olcott
22 Apr 26 i `* Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA237Mikko
22 Apr 26 i  `* Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA236olcott
22 Apr 26 i   +* Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA5Mikko
22 Apr 26 i   i`* Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA4olcott
23 Apr 26 i   i `* Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA3Mikko
23 Apr 26 i   i  `* Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA2olcott
24 Apr 26 i   i   `- Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA1Mikko
23 Apr 26 i   `* Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA230André G. Isaak
23 Apr 26 i    +* Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA4olcott
24 Apr 26 i    i`* Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA3André G. Isaak
25 Apr 26 i    i `* Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA2Chris M. Thomasson
25 Apr 26 i    i  `- Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA1Chris M. Thomasson
23 Apr 26 i    +* Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA2Ross Finlayson
23 Apr 26 i    i`- Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA1Ross Finlayson
20 Jun 26 i    `* Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA223Tristan Wibberley
20 Jun 26 i     `* Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA222olcott
27 Jun 26 i      `* Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA221Tristan Wibberley
27 Jun 26 i       +- Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA1Ross Finlayson
27 Jun 26 i       `* Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA219polcott
28 Jun 26 i        +* Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA216Mikko
29 Jun 26 i        i`* Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA215olcott
29 Jun07:14 i        i `* Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA214Mikko
29 Jun14:29 i        i  `* Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA213olcott
29 Jun18:05 i        i   +* Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA196André G. Isaak
29 Jun19:16 i        i   i`* Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA195olcott
29 Jun19:29 i        i   i `* Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA194André G. Isaak
29 Jun20:08 i        i   i  `* Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA193olcott
29 Jun20:33 i        i   i   `* Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA192André G. Isaak
29 Jun20:47 i        i   i    `* Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA191olcott
29 Jun21:02 i        i   i     `* Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA190André G. Isaak
29 Jun21:06 i        i   i      `* Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA189olcott
29 Jun21:58 i        i   i       `* Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA188André G. Isaak
29 Jun22:10 i        i   i        `* Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA187olcott
29 Jun22:18 i        i   i         `* Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA186André G. Isaak
29 Jun22:39 i        i   i          `* Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA185olcott
29 Jun23:25 i        i   i           `* Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA184André G. Isaak
29 Jun23:38 i        i   i            `* Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA183olcott
30 Jun00:03 i        i   i             `* Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA182André G. Isaak
30 Jun00:36 i        i   i              `* Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA181olcott
30 Jun00:45 i        i   i               `* Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA180André G. Isaak
30 Jun01:37 i        i   i                `* Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA179olcott
30 Jun02:01 i        i   i                 `* Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA178André G. Isaak
30 Jun02:19 i        i   i                  `* The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics177olcott
30 Jun02:54 i        i   i                   `* Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics176André G. Isaak
30 Jun03:17 i        i   i                    +* Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics174olcott
30 Jun03:31 i        i   i                    i`* Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics173André G. Isaak
30 Jun03:42 i        i   i                    i `* Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics172olcott
30 Jun03:49 i        i   i                    i  `* Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics171André G. Isaak
30 Jun04:06 i        i   i                    i   `* Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics170olcott
30 Jun22:18 i        i   i                    i    `* Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics169André G. Isaak
30 Jun22:45 i        i   i                    i     +* Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics162olcott
30 Jun22:56 i        i   i                    i     i`* Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics161André G. Isaak
30 Jun23:04 i        i   i                    i     i `* Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics160olcott
1 Jul03:34 i        i   i                    i     i  `* Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics159dbush
1 Jul03:57 i        i   i                    i     i   `* Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics158olcott
1 Jul04:02 i        i   i                    i     i    +* Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics155dbush
1 Jul04:10 i        i   i                    i     i    i`* Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics154olcott
1 Jul04:17 i        i   i                    i     i    i +* Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics151dbush
1 Jul04:49 i        i   i                    i     i    i i`* Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics150olcott
1 Jul05:01 i        i   i                    i     i    i i `* Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics149dbush
1 Jul05:20 i        i   i                    i     i    i i  `* Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics148olcott
1 Jul12:55 i        i   i                    i     i    i i   `* Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics147dbush
1 Jul15:40 i        i   i                    i     i    i i    `* Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics146olcott
1 Jul18:33 i        i   i                    i     i    i i     `* Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics145dbush
1 Jul19:01 i        i   i                    i     i    i i      `* Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics144olcott
1 Jul19:10 i        i   i                    i     i    i i       +* Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics34André G. Isaak
1 Jul19:20 i        i   i                    i     i    i i       i`* Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics33olcott
1 Jul19:34 i        i   i                    i     i    i i       i +* Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics4dbush
1 Jul19:53 i        i   i                    i     i    i i       i i`* Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics3olcott
1 Jul19:57 i        i   i                    i     i    i i       i i `* Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics2dbush
1 Jul20:06 i        i   i                    i     i    i i       i i  `- Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics1olcott
1 Jul19:40 i        i   i                    i     i    i i       i `* Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics28André G. Isaak
1 Jul19:50 i        i   i                    i     i    i i       i  `* Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics27olcott
1 Jul20:23 i        i   i                    i     i    i i       i   `* Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics26André G. Isaak
1 Jul20:47 i        i   i                    i     i    i i       i    `* Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics25olcott
1 Jul21:11 i        i   i                    i     i    i i       i     `* Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics24André G. Isaak
1 Jul21:28 i        i   i                    i     i    i i       i      `* Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics23olcott
1 Jul21:50 i        i   i                    i     i    i i       i       `* Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics22André G. Isaak
1 Jul21:52 i        i   i                    i     i    i i       i        `* Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics21olcott
1 Jul22:10 i        i   i                    i     i    i i       i         `* Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics20André G. Isaak
1 Jul23:43 i        i   i                    i     i    i i       i          `* Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics19olcott
2 Jul00:09 i        i   i                    i     i    i i       i           `* Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics18André G. Isaak
2 Jul01:05 i        i   i                    i     i    i i       i            `* Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics17olcott
2 Jul01:39 i        i   i                    i     i    i i       i             `* Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics16André G. Isaak
2 Jul02:01 i        i   i                    i     i    i i       i              `* Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics15olcott
2 Jul02:23 i        i   i                    i     i    i i       i               `* Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics14André G. Isaak
2 Jul03:03 i        i   i                    i     i    i i       i                `* Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics13olcott
3 Jul06:02 i        i   i                    i     i    i i       i                 `* Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics12olcott
3 Jul15:45 i        i   i                    i     i    i i       i                  `* Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics11André G. Isaak
3 Jul17:48 i        i   i                    i     i    i i       i                   `* Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics10olcott
3 Jul18:17 i        i   i                    i     i    i i       i                    `* Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics9André G. Isaak
3 Jul19:12 i        i   i                    i     i    i i       i                     `* Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics8olcott
3 Jul19:21 i        i   i                    i     i    i i       i                      `* Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics7André G. Isaak
3 Jul19:38 i        i   i                    i     i    i i       i                       `* Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics6olcott
3 Jul19:46 i        i   i                    i     i    i i       i                        +* Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics4André G. Isaak
3 Jul21:43 i        i   i                    i     i    i i       i                        i`* Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics3olcott
3 Jul22:22 i        i   i                    i     i    i i       i                        i `* Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics2André G. Isaak
4 Jul02:11 i        i   i                    i     i    i i       i                        i  `- Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics1olcott
4 Jul09:49 i        i   i                    i     i    i i       i                        `- Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics1Mikko
1 Jul19:15 i        i   i                    i     i    i i       `* Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics109dbush
1 Jul04:31 i        i   i                    i     i    i `* Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics2André G. Isaak
1 Jul04:04 i        i   i                    i     i    `* Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics2dbush
30 Jun22:56 i        i   i                    i     `* Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics6olcott
30 Jun03:26 i        i   i                    `- Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics1olcott
30 Jun09:18 i        i   `* Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA16Mikko
29 Jun10:50 i        `* Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA2Tristan Wibberley
26 Apr 26 +* Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA45olcott
30 Jun06:54 `- Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA1Tristan Wibberley

Haut de la page

Les messages affichés proviennent d'usenet.

NewsPortal